Wednesday, November 5, 2008

Apparently gay is the new Black

And on the down side of the election news -- gay marriage banned or re-banned all over the country. Bigotry did get one victory yesterday, bigtime.

After the thrill of Obama's victory, this news sobered me to say the least. People apparently still need to have second class citizens around. Folks they think are less than human. Ok, and let me put it out there -- not "sobering" to me -- infuriating, humiliating, degrading. Sobering is much too light a language for my feelings about this.

To me it is an obvious and severe breach of separation of church and state, so it stings that much more. People not only believe that their bigotry is justified, but that it needs to be part of the government -- even though most of it is religiously based.

My opinion on this issue has been the same for a long, long time. Civil unions for those who want to marry (gay or not) to take care of the governmental/legal issues of insurance, death benefits, hospital rights etc. Then, if you want a full-on "marriage" -- you go to a church and have that. Or not. I repeat -- this for everyone, gay or straight. This way your legalities have been taken care of. Sounds like separation of church and state to me. It's how they do it in many countries in Europe.

I look forward to a time when folks don't feel the need to keep other humans down to feel right themselves. I really do.


[photo credit at]


Dale said...

Well said. This is an ugly mark on an otherwise bright day.

Catherine Just said...

i have a friend who is in a 12 step program and had her sponsor tell her the other day that she can no longer work with my friend anymore because she is a lesbian. um, WHAT???
I'm feeling overwhelmed by this. In a 12 step program a person is shutting another person out from getting help from her affliction because she is a lesbian?!
This goes against everything 12 step is about. Our country still has a LONG way to go....

Alan Cordle said...

It's my understanding that in a 12 step program, one usually has to submit to a higher power -- I'd imagine that's Jesus for a lot of people. And a lot of "Christians" are big fat bigots.

Catherine Just said...

well I've never had to submit to anything in 12 step. Just admitting that I needed help and there were others there who had more time then me that would show me what they did and how it works for them. Everything is suggested. If it was a religious program I'd be out years ago. Being Jewish - that whole thing crawls right under my skin. Even though Jesus was Jewish and all - those people who distort the teachings of love do I fight hatred without stooping to their level?? That's my question. I'd love to fight back by rising above it. But my knee jerk reaction is to HATE THEM.

babs said...

lots of evidence that there was a huge mormon financial input to get the "anti-gay" marriage bill passed. . . which is hardly surprising, given they were hugely behind not passing the ERA, which would recognise american females as equal to men under the law.
which females still aren't.
equal to males.
under the american constitution...
because if they were, they'd have complete control over bodies.
including reproduction.
which the xtian right will continue to fight tooth and claw.

what part of the "separation of church and state" - or, indeed, the tax-exempt status of churches which FORBIDS their busybody noses from telling people how to vote - don't they understand, hmm?

make no mistake - "gay marriage" is an issue because it "erodes" their PRIVILEGES. . . it's the same bullsh*t they've been clinging to since their ancestors arrived and declared the original inhabitants of this land "godless savages", and themselves the "chosen."

it's nice to get rid of the bushes around the white house, now we need to pull up the strong roots of this infestation.

babs said...

catherine, I understand your anger, but perhaps your friend would be better served by someone who had a wider outlook on life, more tolerance, f**king empathy even, eh?

lines are still being drawn, camps are retreating to base - this whole "evangelical" dis-ease is having to deal with their god not winning the election for them, y'know? imagine their collective "crushing blow" right now. . .

reframe what happened as your friend just dodged the judgemental god-bullet, and is getting the opportunity to find someone who can truly support her efforts without undermining her in subtle, guilty ways. ^^

how to fight hatred? back away from the hater.

Marianna said...

I'm definitely feeling bittersweet about the election: thrilled to have a competent president for the first time in my adult life, but sad that California and other states think I'm a second-class citizen.

As I said to my father, if we can elect a black president just fifty years after desegregation, then maybe in another fifty years this whole gay thing won't be such a big deal.

Anonymous said...

Well done, Bugthumper. Thanks - the old man in the woods of VA

Catherine Just said...

babs - I love the your thought:
How to fight hatred? Back away from the hater!
that's great.
My friend is still licking her wounds and not sure what to make of it. The homophobe decided to tell her this in front of a group of people. Basically breaking her anonymity and sharing personal info with others. It was not pretty. I think she is still in a bit of shock about it but glad to be done with someone who isn't open or loving. Now she can find a better sponsor.
I've met some "interesting" people in 12 step programs. I learn to take what I need and leave the rest. It's principles before personalities.....

babs said...

catherine, from what you said, about the way your friend's sponsor behaved, it's clear she didn't deserve an unethical, narrow-minded, cruel person to dis-respect her during her healing process. . . while the episode sucks, I'm betting she's about to find someone more in line with her beliefs/needs. by not settling for bigotry, here's hoping she finds a like mind!

and marianna, if you substitute the word "believe" for what SOME in california, etc. "think" - you're closer to truth. those who voted against your reality are losing ground, so they're gonna put up a fierce fight. . . believers always do!